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the oldest and strongest human emotion

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is fear the oldest and strongest type of

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fear the trepidation of young when we

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were children our parents told us that

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monsters didn't exist but we were sure

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that something is lurking under the bed

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beer seeds even if our eyes are closed

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welcome to the realm of your cane

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my name's lon stripper join me as I

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examine unexplained creatures strange

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manifestations and remarkable realities

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imagine this next hour as a voyage of

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discovery to strange lands seeking not

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for new territory but for new knowledge

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of the supernatural come on board as we

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begin this adventure together hey folks

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good evening and welcome to another

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episode of arcane radio

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I'm your host lawn Strickler and I thank

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you for joining me here on the

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paranormal king radio network and before

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I introduce my guest I want to mention

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my account I recently received the

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following account is a strange

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experience that occurred to my mother at

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the age of 5 along with her family in

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the winter of 1957 the incident was the

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picking up of hitchhikers that may or

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may not have been human the incident it

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bears some similarities with accounts of

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phantom hitchhikers but goes much

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further to suggest that they were real

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flesh and bone beans now my mother and

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her family which consists of her parents

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and older sister that between the cities

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of Reidsville and Greensboro in North

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Carolina one day they had an errand in

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Reidsville and on their way they saw an

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older couple walking on the opposite

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side of the road a couple of hours later

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leaving reeseville on their way home

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they saw the same couple in the same

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spot heading in the same directions

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before almost as if they had been

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walking with a Tremec treadmill having

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gained new ground at all they pulled up

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and asked that they needed a lift and

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they said they were trying to get the

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Greenes bird to the bus station and my

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grandfather agreed to take them there

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but first they would have to go home to

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be there in time to pick up their oldest

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daughter from the school bus near their

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home now once inside the car it became

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painfully

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obvious that they were poorly dressed

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for the icy cold weather

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my mother was wearing it excuse me the

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woman was wearing a summer dress in

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sandals and a man a shirt in bib

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overalls and shoes along with a brimmed

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hat my mother being a small child sent

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between her parents and the front seat

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but turned around facing a couple

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staring at the strangers as children do

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taking in their appearance the one thing

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that stood out in her mind was the man's

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piercing beautiful blue eyes the man

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reached into his pocket and handed her

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red pencil with coca-cola written on it

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when they reached home it was decided

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that they were staying for lunch and

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that their names were Bradley now before

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before the drive back to Greensburg not

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considering their clothing my

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grandmother decided to give them more

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appropriate winter clothing and coats

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and shoes for the woman who had only

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sandals crammed a little bit also

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decided to pack them snacks and

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sandwiches for the trip now with their

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guests well-fed and with warmer clothes

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and snacks everyone piled back into the

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car to take them back to Greensboro now

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halfway on their trip the Bradley's

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insisted that they needed to be left off

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on the bridge on old US Highway 29 my

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grandfather protest is saying that

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they'd be able to likely not get another

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ride in being winner to be getting dark

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soon and insisted on carrying them all

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the way but they said no they must be

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left off on the bridge a sort of

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back-and-forth occur between a

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grandfather and the Bradley's with them

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asking to please be left off the bridge

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unable to change their minds he obliged

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and stopped the car they opened the door

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and got out and immediately disappeared

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leaving the door still open my

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grandfather was horrified jumping out of

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the car looking to see if they had fell

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down on the ice out of his view but they

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were nowhere to be found

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he looked all about and called for them

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but nothing but silence the whole area

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was clear as far as he could see but

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still nothing he got back in the car

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with his families really upset and

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confused as to what happened as was

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everybody else Fran

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they drove up and down the road looking

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for them wondering if there's somehow

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they had gotten to know the ride trying

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to rational and as the obvious to

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spectacular disappearance of the

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Bradley's a true fruitless search they

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drove back home confused as if what and

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what had it just occurred this made a

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huge impression on my mother having

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distinctly remember the incident all

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over life so the question remains who

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were the Bradley's were they ghosts but

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ghosts don't stay all at renew with

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you'd eaten lunch furthermore when they

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disappeared the clothes given to them

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disappeared as well even the sandwiches

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that were packed for them this suggests

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that they were salad beings also

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widening system being left off the

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bridge saying it must be done was this

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some sort of portal or gateway to their

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home the whole thing remains a mystery

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so let's get started with tonight's show

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tonight's guest is Nick Redfern there's

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an author

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cryptozoologist and ufologist Nick is a

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full-time author and journalist

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specializing in a wide range and

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unsolved mysteries including Bigfoot the

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Loch Ness monster

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yo fascitis government conspiracies

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alien abduction as a paranormal

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phenomena Nick works on the lecture

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circuit both in UK and overseas and has

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appeared in internationally syndicated

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shows discussing the UFO phenomenon his

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most recent title is top secret alien

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abduction files what the government

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doesn't want you to know so Nick it's

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always great to have you on the show

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thanks for joining me I'm pretty good

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you know I hear you've now written 50

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books is that true well it is but I mean

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it's it is but it's sort of two books a

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year and I've been doing it for like 25

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years like two books a year isn't that

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difficult to do and if you do it kind of

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regularly over 25 years you know it's

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its own it so racks up I guess look you

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know all these years I've been talkin

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ever asked how do

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good start researching and writing about

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the stranger explained well one of these

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people really had what I could call a

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UFO encounter you know I never seen a

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lake monster I've never you know been

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running around in the woods in Pacific

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Northwest and you know running into

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Bigfoot but what got me interested is

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that my dad was in the British Royal Air

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Force he was a radar mechanic and he was

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involved in several UFO incidents at the

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height of the Cold War when you know the

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Russians were still the big big threat

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and they still are but the the story

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basically what he was it was during a

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NATO exercise called Mainbrace

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and the radar operators at the base

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where my dad was stationed which was

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called Royal Air Force Nita said on the

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east coast of England they tracked these

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high-flying fast-moving objects and the

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first thought was well it's got to be

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the Russians and so they scrambled

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fighter planes to try and intercept them

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when the pilots got close some of them

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describes seeing these bright lights

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other people other pilots reported seen

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what looked like sort of classic flying

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saucers and this went on over the course

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of three nights where the planes were

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just simply unable to catch up with them

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and had to return to base

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whenever running low on fuel now at the

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end of the third night that was the end

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of all the encounters and everybody who

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was involved the pilots the ground crew

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the radar operators and the radar

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mechanics like my daddy was brought in

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to check out the equipment to make sure

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it wasn't faulty everybody was told you

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know you won't talk about this etc etc

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and my dad didn't say anything till I

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was about 11 or 12 and he told me the

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story and that sort of really got me

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interested not because it was my own dad

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but because he also had a background in

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the military on radar and so I started

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reading books like people by John Cale

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Brad stag people like that and I sort of

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took it from there and when I finished

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school I didn't really know what I

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wanted to do it wasn't that particularly

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good

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you know students at school and you know

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I didn't really do any good at school I

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ended up walking out again into the real

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world the big world so to speak and I

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just didn't enjoy it and I I just didn't

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see the point of learning about physics

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and biology and chemistry and algebra

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because I knew when I left school I

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would never need to know about any of

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that stuff ever again you know so I just

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didn't know what to do and actually

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stumbled luckily on a job as fate would

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have it in a little town I was living at

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the time where there was a job up for

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him for somebody straight out of school

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to work on a like a celebrity gossip

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entertainment magazine and they would

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train you from the base up if you like

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and you know I said I wasn't that much

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good at school but I did enjoy reading

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you know a lot of books and so works on

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that magazine for a couple of years and

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he closed down and then I thought well

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why not you know try and combine the

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background that are developed in in

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right and in journalism on the magazine

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but apply those sort of journalistic

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techniques to the interest that I've

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developed in the paranormal so that's

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how it all kind of sort of developed

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really it was just fate and being in the

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right place at the right time and and

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just deciding what I wanted to do what I

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didn't want to do really mmm

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you know it's kind of interesting

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hearing that your father had out you

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have the background I my dad was in the

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service as well he was a US Air Force

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and you know I had I would always been

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interested in the paranormal and the

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strange things and you know but I had

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never known until I found out from him

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later on that he was actually with the

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five-o ninth bomber wing of course

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that's the yes Roswell now he now of

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course they were going from Roswell by

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the time he was in they were actually at

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hunter Air Force Base in Savannah

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Georgia by then but he had heard quite a

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few stories because there was

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he went in in 1952 so there were there

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was still a lot of guys that were in the

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unit and in fact Tibbets was his

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commander so at that time so it that was

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very strange so yeah I got it I got a

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few stories out of that quite honest

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with you I believe I believe there was

273
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something really did happen Roswell from

274
00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:04,120
the you know from the stories I received

275
00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:07,750
over the years from these guys well it's

276
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:10,350
funny should say that because my dad's

277
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:15,430
encounter was also 1952 it was the NATO

278
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:17,290
exercise we called Mainbrace

279
00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:20,890
and if you if you google NATO Mainbrace

280
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:24,670
UFO you'll find a lot of stories even in

281
00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:26,170
the official files which have now been

282
00:12:31,259 --> 00:12:28,120
Declassified there was actually was a

283
00:12:34,350 --> 00:12:31,269
large wave of UFO activity at that time

284
00:12:36,030 --> 00:12:34,360
but you know some of the records have

285
00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:36,040
now been Declassified at the British

286
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:38,680
National Archives so they've opened up a

287
00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:41,050
little bit but you know when I was given

288
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:43,540
that story when I was about 11 or 12

289
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:45,790
you know the files were still under

290
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:48,100
wraps then so at least you know part of

291
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:49,570
the stories coming out which is better

292
00:12:53,220 --> 00:12:50,230
than nothing

293
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:53,230
hmm yeah he was part of the Strategic

294
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:56,320
Air Command at that time and he was he

295
00:13:02,310 --> 00:12:59,440
was a bomber engineer so you know he

296
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,320
heard a lot of flight stories and you

297
00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:04,000
know these guys were seeing all kinds of

298
00:13:08,699 --> 00:13:05,649
stuff up there because they were real

299
00:13:10,319 --> 00:13:08,709
high altitude and they had a lot of

300
00:13:16,110 --> 00:13:10,329
encountered a lot of calories you never

301
00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:16,120
hear about so your most recent book is

302
00:13:21,269 --> 00:13:19,420
the top-secret alien abduction files

303
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:21,279
what the government doesn't want you to

304
00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:25,660
know so what do the governments Roy know

305
00:13:31,079 --> 00:13:29,380
about you alien abductions well well

306
00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:31,089
that's a good question now I mean

307
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:33,790
whenever I'm sort of thinking about

308
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,890
writing a book you know you I always

309
00:13:40,860 --> 00:13:37,839
sort of put my self in the perspective

310
00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:40,870
of a reader you know because as well as

311
00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:42,430
writing books you know I read him as

312
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:44,860
well and so I always try and come up

313
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:46,810
with something new or at least a new

314
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:49,130
angle even if you can all Tommy you know

315
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:52,490
- no angle on something you know right

316
00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:54,710
in a lot of books and articles you know

317
00:14:01,270 --> 00:13:58,490
you get a lot of feedback people want to

318
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:01,280
share stories and over the years I'd

319
00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:03,770
collected a lot of accounts from people

320
00:14:10,330 --> 00:14:08,000
who had got an interest in the UFO

321
00:14:12,910 --> 00:14:10,340
subjects not just because of their own

322
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:12,920
experiences but also family members and

323
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:14,330
in some cases they were talking about

324
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:17,360
the abduction phenomenon you know family

325
00:14:22,930 --> 00:14:20,540
members who'd been abducted or the or

326
00:14:27,010 --> 00:14:22,940
the person contacted me being abducted

327
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:27,020
and it not a lot of cases to start with

328
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:30,250
but a few cases the witnesses said that

329
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:33,290
on various occasions only two or three

330
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:35,510
occasions they were visited by military

331
00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:38,090
personnel not in sort of a sinister or

332
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:40,070
threatening fashion but just more in the

333
00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:42,800
situation of you know we saw the article

334
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,710
you wrote about your experience would

335
00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:47,360
you mind if we come in and talk to you

336
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:49,100
about it it was actually quite a you

337
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:53,510
know relaxed kind of situation and you

338
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:55,910
know if it was just one case I'd be okay

339
00:15:00,160 --> 00:14:58,010
well you know it's just interesting but

340
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:00,170
weird but over the over the years I've

341
00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:01,910
probably got somewhere in the region of

342
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,390
25 to 30 cases now of people who were

343
00:15:11,650 --> 00:15:07,760
sort of quietly and to a degree

344
00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:11,660
clandestinely visited and they were a

345
00:15:15,610 --> 00:15:13,700
lot of them were people in the UFO field

346
00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:15,620
who'd have the abduction experience and

347
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:18,950
who had been visited and and it made me

348
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:20,510
realize that there was this trend

349
00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:25,040
developing what sounded like a small but

350
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:28,280
sort of deeply deeply hidden funded

351
00:15:33,070 --> 00:15:30,530
group within the government which seems

352
00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:33,080
to have a deep interest in the abduction

353
00:15:39,370 --> 00:15:36,230
phenomenon and has basically sort of

354
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:39,380
covered all areas to try and figure out

355
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:42,110
what's going on and as you might imagine

356
00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:44,930
a lot of their data came from the UFO

357
00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:47,720
community itself which today you know

358
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:50,540
with social media and the internet it's

359
00:15:55,630 --> 00:15:53,450
very easy you know just to see what this

360
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:55,640
research or that researchers doing right

361
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,380
now and what their latest information

362
00:16:01,900 --> 00:15:59,600
they've got which would you like you

363
00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:01,910
know much more difficult decades ago and

364
00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:03,649
there was no incident

365
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:06,920
but there's no doubt in my mind at all

366
00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:09,230
that deep within the military in the

367
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:11,270
intelligence community there is this

368
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:14,210
small group there is sort of deeply

369
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:17,210
concerned about the abduction phenomenon

370
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:19,910
and is sort of taken a proactive but

371
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:22,910
careful and stealthy approach to people

372
00:16:27,190 --> 00:16:25,450
who've had the experiences and and

373
00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:27,200
interviewed them I want to say

374
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:28,790
interrogated and because for the most

375
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:30,470
part it wasn't anything like that it was

376
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:33,070
you know just question and answers

377
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:35,450
because it seems the government is

378
00:16:41,470 --> 00:16:39,680
interested but concerned and doesn't

379
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:41,480
really seem to have much of a bigger

380
00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:44,690
picture than we do only that they're not

381
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:50,600
entirely sure that it's benevolent so

382
00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:53,060
what type of contactees interesting

383
00:16:59,760 --> 00:16:56,270
government you know and how these

384
00:17:04,299 --> 00:16:59,770
officials reacted these experimenters

385
00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:04,309
well I mean in terms of how the because

386
00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:05,900
of the questioning began is that what

387
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:06,380
you saying

388
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:10,730
yeah here's a curve well one of the

389
00:17:16,419 --> 00:17:13,699
things that I've noted is that the vast

390
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:16,429
majority of the cases where there's been

391
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:19,490
a government angle to it although it

392
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:22,730
hasn't been sort of something that

393
00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:24,770
occurred on a massive scale in the 50s

394
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:28,780
60s and 70s I have got probably about

395
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,970
seven or eight to ten cases from that

396
00:17:39,370 --> 00:17:34,400
period from that era but the vast

397
00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:39,380
majority do come from the the last 15 to

398
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:41,929
20 years and the reason why I think that

399
00:17:47,790 --> 00:17:44,330
is because particularly if you look at

400
00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:47,800
things today like Twitter Facebook

401
00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:52,670
blogging etc etc what you find is that a

402
00:17:57,970 --> 00:17:54,590
lot of these accounts you know people

403
00:18:00,400 --> 00:17:57,980
just put their own stories online so in

404
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:00,410
other words the days of the government

405
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:04,820
having to carefully follow around people

406
00:18:09,370 --> 00:18:07,910
around and you know survey telephones

407
00:18:11,770 --> 00:18:09,380
that kind of thing those days are

408
00:18:14,350 --> 00:18:11,780
largely gone you know I mean all you

409
00:18:16,659 --> 00:18:14,360
have to do to see what the average UFO

410
00:18:19,889 --> 00:18:16,669
research is doing in the latest cases

411
00:18:23,619 --> 00:18:19,899
found is to go to their Facebook page

412
00:18:25,869 --> 00:18:23,629
saying about story and that seems to be

413
00:18:28,539 --> 00:18:25,879
the way how the government is worked

414
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:28,549
with this it's actually nothing hugely

415
00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:31,129
conspiratorial and felt like following

416
00:18:34,989 --> 00:18:33,590
people around or listening on the phone

417
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:34,999
or anything like that

418
00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:38,090
it's just looking at the stories the

419
00:18:41,739 --> 00:18:40,100
latest information and if there's

420
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:41,749
something that really catches their

421
00:18:48,159 --> 00:18:44,690
attention on occasion they've gone out

422
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:48,169
and quietly and carefully spoken to the

423
00:18:53,019 --> 00:18:50,210
witnesses you know we saw your accounts

424
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:53,029
would you mind sharing it with us we're

425
00:18:58,930 --> 00:18:55,730
looking into this we'd prefer you don't

426
00:18:59,919 --> 00:18:58,940
go public with this interview because we

427
00:19:02,259 --> 00:18:59,929
feel there could be

428
00:19:06,729 --> 00:19:02,269
national security issues that kind of

429
00:19:09,489 --> 00:19:06,739
thing and you know and if it was if it

430
00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:09,499
really was like something you know

431
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:11,869
thousands of people running this you

432
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:13,369
know sort of the equivalent to the FBI

433
00:19:17,739 --> 00:19:15,710
or the CIA but just an alien abductions

434
00:19:19,299 --> 00:19:17,749
I would be extremely skeptical of

435
00:19:21,729 --> 00:19:19,309
something like that because he would

436
00:19:24,369 --> 00:19:21,739
clearly have tumbled out into the public

437
00:19:28,509 --> 00:19:24,379
domain by now but a small group of

438
00:19:33,009 --> 00:19:28,519
perhaps 15 to 20 personnel carefully and

439
00:19:35,109 --> 00:19:33,019
sort of stealthily funded and keeping a

440
00:19:37,899 --> 00:19:35,119
careful eye on every aspect of the

441
00:19:41,169 --> 00:19:37,909
abduction phenomenon reviewing books and

442
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:41,179
articles and on occasion going out and

443
00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:43,129
speaking to people if they feel some of

444
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,029
the stories are very significant that

445
00:19:52,930 --> 00:19:49,039
seems to be the way they're doing it and

446
00:19:54,909 --> 00:19:52,940
to me that would explain I think why the

447
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:54,919
story hasn't largely come out because

448
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:57,919
it's not some huge organization it's

449
00:20:04,539 --> 00:20:01,039
actually quite a small one but there

450
00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:04,549
were some disturbing trends to the the

451
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:06,529
cases that the the government

452
00:20:11,979 --> 00:20:10,070
investigated and I found this by when I

453
00:20:16,269 --> 00:20:11,989
was interviewing and tracking down the

454
00:20:19,090 --> 00:20:16,279
people what I found was a trend that one

455
00:20:22,749 --> 00:20:19,100
of the areas that the government asked

456
00:20:25,899 --> 00:20:22,759
the abductees about was that when you

457
00:20:28,330 --> 00:20:25,909
were having the abduction experience did

458
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:28,340
you feel at any points that you're and

459
00:20:30,490 --> 00:20:29,480
this is going to sound really weird but

460
00:20:32,770 --> 00:20:30,500
there's the question they

461
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:32,780
did you fail at any points that like

462
00:20:37,810 --> 00:20:35,210
your soul have been extracted out of

463
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,820
your body no you know some people might

464
00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:39,440
some people might say well that's you

465
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:43,220
know the agents actually sort of leading

466
00:20:48,250 --> 00:20:45,230
them down a path you know rather than

467
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:48,260
just getting their story but there that

468
00:20:52,180 --> 00:20:50,210
was a question they asked quite a lot

469
00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:52,190
you know did you feel like your soul was

470
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:54,350
being extracted did you have what you

471
00:20:59,770 --> 00:20:56,230
felt was like a near-death experience

472
00:21:02,320 --> 00:20:59,780
did you see yourself on the UFO like

473
00:21:04,150 --> 00:21:02,330
from above looking down at your body on

474
00:21:06,130 --> 00:21:04,160
the table with the so-called little

475
00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:06,140
greys around it

476
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:09,110
and that was one of the areas that I

477
00:21:12,790 --> 00:21:10,640
found with these people have been

478
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:12,800
visited that was one of the areas that

479
00:21:18,910 --> 00:21:15,370
they were focused on time and time again

480
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,920
connections between abductees and what

481
00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:20,960
you might call the soul and life after

482
00:21:30,910 --> 00:21:24,670
death and they were also asked about

483
00:21:32,620 --> 00:21:30,920
dreams and nightmares not of you know

484
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:32,630
sort of involved not necessarily always

485
00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:34,970
involving aliens but image you know did

486
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:37,550
they have any nightmares and bad dreams

487
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:40,960
of like nuclear war and images of

488
00:21:46,210 --> 00:21:43,370
gigantic mushroom clouds and all that

489
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:46,220
kind of thing so a lot of what the

490
00:21:50,740 --> 00:21:48,260
government was looking at was sort of

491
00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:50,750
apocalyptic stuff in relation to

492
00:21:56,980 --> 00:21:54,230
abductions and matters relative to life

493
00:21:59,680 --> 00:21:56,990
after death which kind of suggests that

494
00:22:01,260 --> 00:21:59,690
the government or an agency a small

495
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:01,270
group within government I should say

496
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:04,970
seems but now you can find stories like

497
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:07,730
this you know in in a lot of abduction

498
00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:08,990
books people have these a pop

499
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:12,020
apocalyptic dreams but it seems to me

500
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:14,510
that the government's has gone further

501
00:22:19,180 --> 00:22:17,570
than just you know speaking to people

502
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:19,190
about their experiences you know where

503
00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:21,170
you implanted what did you see on board

504
00:22:23,650 --> 00:22:21,740
the craft

505
00:22:26,410 --> 00:22:23,660
they've gone far beyond that now and it

506
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:26,420
seems they're more for whatever reason

507
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:28,730
where they got more data but they seem

508
00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:31,760
to be focusing more on the the far more

509
00:22:36,610 --> 00:22:34,550
alternative aspects of the abduction

510
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:36,620
phenomenon going far beyond just nuts

511
00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:39,050
and bolts craft and you know genetic

512
00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:41,540
experiments and implants they're going

513
00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:45,150
almost down like a wagon esotery

514
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:47,670
like a supernatural path you know there

515
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:49,410
seemed to be more interested in the

516
00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:51,809
supernatural aspects of as I said things

517
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:54,780
like prophetic dreams and nightmares and

518
00:23:01,130 --> 00:22:58,170
and the soul and stuff like that well

519
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:01,140
this brings me to an another question

520
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:04,080
and I was intrigued in the from what you

521
00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:05,460
wrote in the book about these dream

522
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,460
scenarios and the one especially the

523
00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:10,559
ones you received from many people

524
00:23:16,990 --> 00:23:13,620
during the Chicago winged humanoid

525
00:23:22,669 --> 00:23:17,000
sightings can you talk about that a bit

526
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:22,679
yeah obviously no you know what 2017

527
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:26,010
there was a huge wave of masked-man type

528
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:28,550
activity in and around the Chicago area

529
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:32,880
area scuse me and and it cause you know

530
00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:34,890
it provoked a lot of interest on the

531
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:37,140
part of cryptozoologists and ufologists

532
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:39,090
because you know the whole Mothman thing

533
00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:42,090
kind of straddles both domains ufology

534
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:44,700
and cryptozoology and for a lot of

535
00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:46,280
people you know it's perceived as like a

536
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:49,230
supernatural creature so you have you

537
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:52,170
know various different angles to this

538
00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:55,260
now although I didn't ever sort of go

539
00:24:01,549 --> 00:23:57,720
out of my way at all to write any

540
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:01,559
articles particularly on the Chicago

541
00:24:07,610 --> 00:24:03,540
Mothman sightings but what I did I

542
00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:07,620
mentioned that in an article in that

543
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:09,960
same time frame that I'd received a

544
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:13,230
number of I am sort of accounts and

545
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:15,720
stories from abductees who in that

546
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:20,400
period had apocalyptic dreams and I've

547
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:22,770
actually wrote this article because I'd

548
00:24:26,330 --> 00:24:24,330
already started to get some of these

549
00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:26,340
Alberti stories in so I thought of put a

550
00:24:30,890 --> 00:24:28,230
an article out there which I did a

551
00:24:33,020 --> 00:24:30,900
mysterious universe and to see they

552
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:33,030
would bring any other people forward and

553
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:35,700
I was amazed at how many people did come

554
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:37,770
forward I think in the first week there

555
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:40,860
was like 27 people who said they'd had

556
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:45,300
apocalyptic dreams within the past sorta

557
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:47,970
like the last three or four weeks and I

558
00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:50,610
think out of that 27 five or six were

559
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:54,059
based around Chicago and I think now the

560
00:24:58,130 --> 00:24:56,340
number of these apocalyptic dream

561
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,140
stories of cities

562
00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:00,240
the u.s. is somewhere in the region

563
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:04,520
about 60 to 65 I think it is now and and

564
00:25:09,410 --> 00:25:08,130
the the witnesses were basically all

565
00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:09,420
telling the same story

566
00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:12,750
and this also kind of tied in timewise

567
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:15,990
when you had the you know the all the

568
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:18,840
the fears that North Korea was going to

569
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:21,090
be able to develop a nuclear weapon and

570
00:25:24,049 --> 00:25:22,799
there were you know that in the news

571
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:24,059
they were saying you know it might be

572
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:25,860
able to reach you at Seattle or it might

573
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:28,890
be able to reach Chicago so kind of like

574
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:31,290
with the masked man in Point Pleasant in

575
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,450
the 60s which ended in tragedy with the

576
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:36,240
collapse of the Silver Bridge you had

577
00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:38,760
Mothman turning up in Chicago where

578
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:41,910
people were a associate in Chicago with

579
00:25:45,950 --> 00:25:44,910
nightmarish dreams a nuclear attacks

580
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:45,960
that kind of thing

581
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:49,010
so I wrote that first article and that

582
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:52,410
actually provoked even the second one I

583
00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:56,880
wrote provoked even more responses again

584
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:58,890
you know people seeing images of cities

585
00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:01,620
just flattened in seconds and millions

586
00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:03,929
of people dead in the sky like black for

587
00:26:11,930 --> 00:26:07,470
years now one person contact me to say

588
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:11,940
did I read Whitley streamer's novel war

589
00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:14,940
day now for people having don't know

590
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:17,070
that book it was written in 84 three

591
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:20,640
years before streamer's first abduction

592
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:22,530
book came out communion this was back in

593
00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:25,919
84 and war day it's a novel but he

594
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:29,100
actually places streamer and his family

595
00:26:32,919 --> 00:26:30,690
in the story it's basically a

596
00:26:36,490 --> 00:26:32,929
fictionalized version of how they

597
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:36,500
reacted or survived a nuclear war and

598
00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:39,330
what's particularly interesting is that

599
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:43,230
in Ward a bear in mind that this was you

600
00:26:49,220 --> 00:26:46,650
know 84 in the story there are rumors of

601
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:49,230
this huge flying humanoid creature with

602
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:52,140
bat light wings flying around the

603
00:27:00,140 --> 00:26:55,650
landscape after the nuclear attack now

604
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:00,150
what's also intriguing is that a number

605
00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:03,120
of people who had these prophetic dreams

606
00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:07,830
said that the u.s. was placed in like a

607
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:11,100
vulnerable position because before the

608
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:12,330
nuclear attack

609
00:27:20,060 --> 00:27:16,710
occurred that the country was hit with

610
00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:20,070
basically what's called electromagnetic

611
00:27:28,129 --> 00:27:22,190
excuse me

612
00:27:31,129 --> 00:27:28,139
forgotten the term electromagnetic pulse

613
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:31,139
let's go am pace electromagnetic pulse

614
00:27:38,029 --> 00:27:35,039
weapon which basically will render just

615
00:27:41,779 --> 00:27:38,039
about every electrical base of electric

616
00:27:43,999 --> 00:27:41,789
equipments in the not just the immediate

617
00:27:47,089 --> 00:27:44,009
vicinity but for literally dozens and

618
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:47,099
hundreds of miles and strategically

619
00:27:54,169 --> 00:27:50,159
placed a MP weapons can literally you

620
00:27:57,969 --> 00:27:54,179
know disable a country and a number of

621
00:28:00,919 --> 00:27:57,979
the people who had these dreams of

622
00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:00,929
nuclear war and atomic destruction and

623
00:28:06,499 --> 00:28:03,960
so on in their dreams they were seeing

624
00:28:08,539 --> 00:28:06,509
imagery where we were unable to fight

625
00:28:09,589 --> 00:28:08,549
back and they couldn't figure out how

626
00:28:11,659 --> 00:28:09,599
that could be the case

627
00:28:13,609 --> 00:28:11,669
and and it turned out that when they

628
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:13,619
looked up you know on the internet as to

629
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:15,710
how that could be it all came back to

630
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:19,919
EMP weapons which again you know you if

631
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:23,039
you launch EMP weapons as I said at one

632
00:28:28,299 --> 00:28:25,289
particular location it will literally

633
00:28:32,409 --> 00:28:28,309
render everything you know electric

634
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:32,419
electrical systems cars internet

635
00:28:37,719 --> 00:28:35,190
everything will go out and you have no

636
00:28:39,589 --> 00:28:37,729
way really to do anything about it so

637
00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:39,599
you know at there are all these

638
00:28:45,729 --> 00:28:41,820
different threads coming from different

639
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:45,739
people but they were all interlinked and

640
00:28:52,969 --> 00:28:49,529
and it all revolved around disasters

641
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:52,979
nuclear explosions nightmares and dreams

642
00:29:01,849 --> 00:28:58,159
of the future but also EMP weapons and

643
00:29:03,589 --> 00:29:01,859
in several cases sort of like in that I

644
00:29:05,299 --> 00:29:03,599
receive I didn't receive a lot but I

645
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,309
think I've got three or four cases where

646
00:29:09,379 --> 00:29:07,440
somebody dreamed of like a large winged

647
00:29:11,959 --> 00:29:09,389
creature and then of course there was

648
00:29:15,709 --> 00:29:11,969
one that I totally overlooked and that

649
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:15,719
was the the ward a book of Whitley

650
00:29:19,609 --> 00:29:16,289
Strieber

651
00:29:22,129 --> 00:29:19,619
which contains a set of saga of a

652
00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:22,139
Mothman type creature and it just so

653
00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:25,630
happens that in war day the reason

654
00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:28,750
why the UI the US comes across after the

655
00:29:33,420 --> 00:29:31,030
war in just a state of total disaster

656
00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:33,430
and collapse is because the Russians

657
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:35,740
launched an EMP weapon or a series of

658
00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:39,070
them which disables the entire electric

659
00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:41,230
grid in the US so we're unable to launch

660
00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:43,630
back so you put all those issues

661
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:46,060
together and it really did come across

662
00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:50,680
sort of what really eerie you know you

663
00:29:55,410 --> 00:29:54,070
know it's interesting because I see in

664
00:29:57,150 --> 00:29:55,420
July and August

665
00:30:00,060 --> 00:29:57,160
well when I was you know during the

666
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:00,070
middle of this flap in Chicago I was

667
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:02,350
receiving phone calls up to 20 a day

668
00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:05,530
really for 24 hours any time at night

669
00:30:11,670 --> 00:30:10,270
from residents in Chicago who was scared

670
00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:11,680
to death that something was going to

671
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:14,550
happen because of these sightings and

672
00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:18,480
I'd also get these dreams and areas of

673
00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:20,860
nuclear disaster but you know I never

674
00:30:26,250 --> 00:30:23,260
really thought much about it I just

675
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,260
thought well you know you know I don't I

676
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:28,240
don't know you know quite frankly when I

677
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:29,890
read this in your book I was kind of

678
00:30:37,790 --> 00:30:31,870
shocked because I hadn't heard that

679
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:40,890
no but I was just gonna say I guess it's

680
00:30:46,590 --> 00:30:42,760
one of those things that a lot of people

681
00:30:48,450 --> 00:30:46,600
don't necessarily associate with

682
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:48,460
abductions because what I mean by that

683
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:50,590
is a lot of the people who approached me

684
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:52,780
with these stories of like futuristic

685
00:30:58,260 --> 00:30:55,810
nightmares of an atomic war a lot of

686
00:31:00,810 --> 00:30:58,270
them there was no UFO components or

687
00:31:04,050 --> 00:31:00,820
alien even an abduction component to it

688
00:31:06,390 --> 00:31:04,060
but in some cases there was where the

689
00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:06,400
witnesses or the people having the

690
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:09,940
dreams were abductees and they were

691
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:12,430
seeing sort of mass destruction here

692
00:31:18,420 --> 00:31:14,370
there and everywhere across the country

693
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,430
and from there some of those abductee

694
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,880
said that they were sort of approached

695
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:23,440
again quite sort of clandestinely by

696
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:26,170
government security people who said you

697
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:28,210
know we saw this again this gets back to

698
00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:30,610
what I said about social media one of

699
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:32,830
the people I spoke to said you know she

700
00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:34,630
posted something on her Facebook page

701
00:31:39,389 --> 00:31:38,470
about you know her fears that you know

702
00:31:42,029 --> 00:31:39,399
we could be hit by

703
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:42,039
pay weapons and then would be disabled

704
00:31:46,739 --> 00:31:44,799
and she got a visit and said you know

705
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:46,749
can you tell us more as to why you think

706
00:31:51,389 --> 00:31:48,960
this you know could we read your story

707
00:31:53,369 --> 00:31:51,399
and again it was not you know it's not

708
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:53,379
an interrogation anything threatening it

709
00:32:00,469 --> 00:31:56,159
was just you know somebody who was

710
00:32:03,989 --> 00:32:00,479
ordered to go out essentially and and

711
00:32:05,579 --> 00:32:03,999
and look into the story and thinks the

712
00:32:07,379 --> 00:32:05,589
books come out three other people have

713
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:07,389
contacted me to say that they had

714
00:32:13,849 --> 00:32:10,330
similar experiences which again leads me

715
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:13,859
to believe that this this angle of life

716
00:32:19,349 --> 00:32:17,039
Armageddon and you know death and

717
00:32:22,829 --> 00:32:19,359
nuclear war and the soul and the

718
00:32:26,329 --> 00:32:22,839
afterlife somebody for some reason on

719
00:32:30,989 --> 00:32:26,339
the inside is really kind of antsy and

720
00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:30,999
concerned about that angle he doesn't

721
00:32:34,859 --> 00:32:32,919
even seem to be that the young the

722
00:32:36,719 --> 00:32:34,869
abduction angle per se you know just the

723
00:32:39,239 --> 00:32:36,729
issue of people being abducted that

724
00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:39,249
doesn't seem to be the primary thing nor

725
00:32:44,249 --> 00:32:41,940
did all these rumors and concerns about

726
00:32:46,469 --> 00:32:44,259
implants and tracking people and all

727
00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:46,479
that kind of stuff it really does seem

728
00:32:53,489 --> 00:32:50,940
to be far more connected to this this

729
00:32:55,709 --> 00:32:53,499
weird aside and far more in many

730
00:32:58,859 --> 00:32:55,719
respects like a far more disturbing side

731
00:33:02,839 --> 00:32:58,869
hmm you know that's interesting because

732
00:33:04,889 --> 00:33:02,849
I have been I have been visited by

733
00:33:07,829 --> 00:33:04,899
government officials on two occasions

734
00:33:11,159 --> 00:33:07,839
and on both occasions they were

735
00:33:14,029 --> 00:33:11,169
inquiring about something I wrote that

736
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:14,039
referenced aid you know I can encounter

737
00:33:21,539 --> 00:33:17,710
an alien encounter supposedly that had

738
00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:21,549
come through portals both instances they

739
00:33:26,879 --> 00:33:25,179
asked about that you know and I really

740
00:33:30,629 --> 00:33:26,889
thought much about it though you know it

741
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:30,639
kind of shook me up but they were

742
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:32,529
interested I just didn't know that it

743
00:33:39,089 --> 00:33:37,210
was so widespread well I mean that's a

744
00:33:41,329 --> 00:33:39,099
good point and I think the only reason

745
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:41,339
why I've been able to sort of develop

746
00:33:47,009 --> 00:33:44,409
kind of this the sheer scope and scale

747
00:33:49,589 --> 00:33:47,019
that this is going on is because you

748
00:33:52,649 --> 00:33:49,599
know it's like you write a book on any

749
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:52,659
subject or an article on it whether it's

750
00:33:57,310 --> 00:33:53,270
big four

751
00:34:00,040 --> 00:33:57,320
or UFOs or Mothman men in black whatever

752
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:00,050
what happens very often is that people

753
00:34:04,450 --> 00:34:02,810
will contact you and say hey Nick you

754
00:34:06,610 --> 00:34:04,460
know read your article read your book I

755
00:34:10,330 --> 00:34:06,620
wanted to share this with you because it

756
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:10,340
was similar to my experience of ABC XYZ

757
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:13,610
so in other words I think that's the

758
00:34:17,350 --> 00:34:15,649
only reason I was able to start putting

759
00:34:20,290 --> 00:34:17,360
this picture together because people

760
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:20,300
were sort of generously enough to to

761
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:21,679
share their experience and then you

762
00:34:25,590 --> 00:34:23,570
start to develop this picture in this

763
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:25,600
pattern I mean I think that would be

764
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,159
arguably pretty much exactly the same

765
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:31,280
you know with your cases in relation to

766
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:35,570
Mothman last year but one or two stories

767
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:37,310
get to you you know you put the story

768
00:34:41,350 --> 00:34:39,050
out there and other people about the

769
00:34:43,659 --> 00:34:41,360
experience they put their story out

770
00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:43,669
there or send it to you and it develops

771
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:46,520
and it was kind of like a similar thing

772
00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:48,530
you know you got dozens and dozens of

773
00:34:53,110 --> 00:34:50,780
Mothman cases I didn't get dozens and

774
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:53,120
dozens of Mothman cases from Chicago at

775
00:34:57,790 --> 00:34:55,760
all in fact just one or two what I did

776
00:34:59,620 --> 00:34:57,800
was a lot of these prophetic dream ones

777
00:35:01,330 --> 00:34:59,630
because that's what I was writing the

778
00:35:04,690 --> 00:35:01,340
articles about that mysterious universe

779
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:04,700
so I think I think that more than

780
00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:07,490
anything else is the way in which we're

781
00:35:11,350 --> 00:35:09,260
starting to see this bigger picture is

782
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:11,360
because as I said you know the the

783
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:13,850
witnesses the victims however you want

784
00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:17,030
to term them they're the ones who are

785
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:19,340
willing to either on the record or off

786
00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:20,000
the record

787
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:22,670
share their accounts and then you can

788
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:25,370
start to build up this picture and as I

789
00:35:30,430 --> 00:35:28,550
said the picture is not what I thought

790
00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:30,440
it was going to be you know I thought it

791
00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:32,600
was just gonna be where do the aliens

792
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:34,550
come from you know what are they what do

793
00:35:41,290 --> 00:35:38,000
they want no it was all about you know

794
00:35:43,060 --> 00:35:41,300
I'm far more unsettling stuff you know

795
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:43,070
like as I said like the soul and the

796
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:46,670
afterlife and what do you think you know

797
00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:49,910
the outcomes gonna be for or some just a

798
00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:52,820
lot of questions the questions that were

799
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:55,190
being asked made me I have no proof of

800
00:36:00,100 --> 00:35:56,450
what I'm going to say now but the

801
00:36:02,350 --> 00:36:00,110
questions that they asked it seemed to

802
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:02,360
me that they've been looking into some

803
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:06,710
really alternative areas you know

804
00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:10,070
literally studying you know theories and

805
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:12,380
concepts in relation to the whole the

806
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:16,390
whole issue of the soul and religion and

807
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:23,810
fate and Armageddon and you know just

808
00:36:27,730 --> 00:36:26,390
just things like that that you wouldn't

809
00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:27,740
necessarily think they were being

810
00:36:31,860 --> 00:36:29,780
applying their time to but but they

811
00:36:34,780 --> 00:36:31,870
actually were mm-hmm

812
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:34,790
and that's that's interesting because I

813
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:37,370
I would never think that a government

814
00:36:43,420 --> 00:36:39,410
agency would kind of be open-minded to a

815
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:43,430
lot of this I mean I'll give you another

816
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:45,200
perfect example of this

817
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,410
well this one's actually documental is

818
00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:50,480
that you remember back in January 86

819
00:36:55,630 --> 00:36:52,070
when the space shuttle Challenger

820
00:36:59,380 --> 00:36:55,640
exploded on takeoff the crew all got

821
00:37:03,090 --> 00:36:59,390
killed well when that happened a number

822
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:03,100
of people connect contacted the FBI and

823
00:37:07,540 --> 00:37:05,810
claimed that they'd seen like as if

824
00:37:09,010 --> 00:37:07,550
something had hit the fuel tank and

825
00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:09,020
exploded it so they were talking about

826
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:11,480
my terrorists and things like that and

827
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:14,510
five five or six people contacted the

828
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:18,230
FBI and the FBI came out to interview

829
00:37:22,930 --> 00:37:19,910
these people you know what did you say

830
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:22,940
etc etc one of them was a psychic woman

831
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:26,090
and and the reason I'm mentioning this

832
00:37:30,820 --> 00:37:28,160
because this the file the Space Shuttle

833
00:37:33,490 --> 00:37:30,830
file has now been Declassified by the

834
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:33,500
FBI and you can read it at their website

835
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:37,610
the vault and in one case the one of the

836
00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:41,150
witnesses was a psychic and they

837
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:43,070
actually went out to interview this

838
00:37:46,990 --> 00:37:45,440
woman who took the story very seriously

839
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:47,000
they said well you know what were you

840
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:47,570
told

841
00:37:54,910 --> 00:37:50,410
what were they she said she was Incan in

842
00:37:56,410 --> 00:37:54,920
conduct with a strange entity sort of

843
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:56,420
ethereal entities she never actually

844
00:38:01,120 --> 00:37:59,090
called them aliens but that was for all

845
00:38:03,970 --> 00:38:01,130
intents and purposes what they were and

846
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:03,980
the FBI listened very carefully and that

847
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:07,910
became part of the FBI file so in other

848
00:38:15,550 --> 00:38:11,530
words government agencies you know don't

849
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:15,560
necessarily investigate UFO encounters

850
00:38:20,590 --> 00:38:18,770
or deal with psychics because they have

851
00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:20,600
like you know the psychic project

852
00:38:26,770 --> 00:38:22,430
not like that they'll will basically

853
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:26,780
follow up on any and all leads to figure

854
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,970
out what they need to figure out to

855
00:38:34,210 --> 00:38:31,520
preserve national security and sometimes

856
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:34,220
they will go down old very alternative

857
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,490
pathways to try and find the answers and

858
00:38:42,910 --> 00:38:39,680
he doesn't necessarily that mean they

859
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:42,920
believe that this is the answer but they

860
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:45,110
feel that they have to cover you know

861
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:47,930
every angle I mean that's like why in

862
00:38:54,850 --> 00:38:51,170
the 1970s you know you had the the

863
00:38:58,050 --> 00:38:54,860
psychic ASP phenomenon known as remote

864
00:39:00,820 --> 00:38:58,060
viewing you know the government tried to

865
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:00,830
psychically sort of spy on the Russians

866
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:02,810
now if you look at the Declassified

867
00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:04,850
files there are a lot of people in

868
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:06,920
government who thought well this is

869
00:39:10,450 --> 00:39:08,570
actually gonna work and other people

870
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:10,460
were like this is crazy we shouldn't be

871
00:39:15,340 --> 00:39:13,520
funding this so in other words you know

872
00:39:17,770 --> 00:39:15,350
you do have this situation where very

873
00:39:20,590 --> 00:39:17,780
often funding is given to government

874
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:20,600
agencies where sometimes even the

875
00:39:25,150 --> 00:39:22,970
agencies themselves are dubious as to

876
00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:25,160
whether or not they should even be

877
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:26,600
looking into this or should they'll be

878
00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:27,890
looking elsewhere and I think that's

879
00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:30,470
probably the case with what was going on

880
00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:34,190
in 2017 that there were a lot of people

881
00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:36,680
coming forward with these nightmarish

882
00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:39,560
dreams and and and some of them

883
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:41,150
connected with abductions and somebody

884
00:39:46,510 --> 00:39:43,970
said well regardless of how wild this

885
00:39:48,250 --> 00:39:46,520
sounds because they're talking about EMP

886
00:39:50,620 --> 00:39:48,260
weapons and things like this we really

887
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:50,630
ought to just check into it just to be

888
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:52,370
safe because that's what they've always

889
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:54,110
done they did it with remote viewing and

890
00:39:59,470 --> 00:39:57,530
with the space shuttle etc so I think

891
00:40:00,940 --> 00:39:59,480
that's what's going on now you know that

892
00:40:02,740 --> 00:40:00,950
may well be people in government who are

893
00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:02,750
thinking you know we should not be

894
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:05,240
spending even a penny you know just a

895
00:40:11,590 --> 00:40:08,720
dime on this unable thing well you know

896
00:40:13,810 --> 00:40:11,600
the 7080 people are talking about this

897
00:40:16,450 --> 00:40:13,820
and they're very specific in terms of

898
00:40:20,590 --> 00:40:16,460
the locations it won't hurt to funnel

899
00:40:24,130 --> 00:40:20,600
you know 50 grand into high you know

900
00:40:26,350 --> 00:40:24,140
having five guys look into this for like

901
00:40:28,060 --> 00:40:26,360
six weeks or two months and at the end

902
00:40:30,730 --> 00:40:28,070
of it let's see what we've got I think

903
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:30,740
that's probably you know the the

904
00:40:33,870 --> 00:40:32,450
approach that was taken something like

905
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:33,880
that

906
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:36,310
you think these are government agencies

907
00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:38,710
that you're talking about now

908
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:41,020
is that connected to what the old

909
00:40:44,670 --> 00:40:43,090
phenomena would do men and black or is

910
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:44,680
something called different

911
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:48,250
oh well that actually gets into one of

912
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:50,490
the weirdest parts of the book actually

913
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:54,490
now most of the people who I spoke to

914
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,010
said you know there was concern on the

915
00:41:01,980 --> 00:40:59,920
part of the interviewees excuse me the

916
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:01,990
interviewers within the government that

917
00:41:06,180 --> 00:41:03,970
said you know we really don't want you

918
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:06,190
to talk about this or at least not for a

919
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:09,370
while but we just want you know see if

920
00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:12,370
you can help us and they did but when

921
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:13,870
you talk about the men in black you know

922
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:16,930
a lot of people take the image of you

923
00:41:20,850 --> 00:41:18,910
know Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones from

924
00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:20,860
the movies but if you look at the

925
00:41:27,690 --> 00:41:23,980
original reports of me MIB going back to

926
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:27,700
the fifties and to the present day you

927
00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:29,950
get a lot of reports where they just

928
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:31,360
don't even look human

929
00:41:38,070 --> 00:41:34,390
they look very pale and gaunt and skinny

930
00:41:39,570 --> 00:41:38,080
and sometimes have these large eyes that

931
00:41:41,610 --> 00:41:39,580
they hide behind these wraparound

932
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:41,620
glasses and they seem to have the

933
00:41:46,530 --> 00:41:43,810
ability to sort of control people's

934
00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:46,540
minds and hypnotize them so you know

935
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:48,820
they don't come across as human now

936
00:41:52,590 --> 00:41:50,290
to get back to what you said about the

937
00:41:55,620 --> 00:41:52,600
men in black there are a number of cases

938
00:41:58,980 --> 00:41:55,630
that I've got where the the people who

939
00:42:02,040 --> 00:41:58,990
were visited by the government agents

940
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:02,050
and were interviewed in in quite a it

941
00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:03,520
wasn't really you know like in an

942
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:05,740
intimidating situation for the most part

943
00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:07,930
I would just you know can you help us

944
00:42:14,670 --> 00:42:12,760
but probably about 20% of those people I

945
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:14,680
interviewed said they had sort of

946
00:42:20,610 --> 00:42:18,160
follow-up situations where they get home

947
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:20,620
from work and they'd see this strange

948
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:22,570
guy standing over the other side of the

949
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:25,330
street with like a an old black suit and

950
00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:28,270
an old black fedora hat and looking

951
00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:31,080
really weird and just staring into the

952
00:42:37,590 --> 00:42:35,230
window and and other people just

953
00:42:40,260 --> 00:42:37,600
described similar things where they

954
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:40,270
would see these MIB following them but

955
00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:42,850
they didn't seem like like in the movies

956
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:44,500
you know they seemed up more like sort

957
00:42:47,849 --> 00:42:47,050
of cadaverous vampires was how they

958
00:42:49,259 --> 00:42:47,859
wanna

959
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:49,269
personal actually describe them you're

960
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:53,140
looking at our empire so it seems to be

961
00:42:58,170 --> 00:42:54,910
the case and this you may get really

962
00:43:00,299 --> 00:42:58,180
complicated is that there are people in

963
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:00,309
governments who've been in interviewing

964
00:43:05,609 --> 00:43:03,130
clandestinely and quietly the abductees

965
00:43:09,059 --> 00:43:05,619
and then afterwards you got this

966
00:43:12,019 --> 00:43:09,069
creepier group of the men in black also

967
00:43:15,930 --> 00:43:12,029
keeping their eyes on the very same

968
00:43:18,509 --> 00:43:15,940
abductees so it's like you've got you

969
00:43:21,930 --> 00:43:18,519
know the the government angle and this

970
00:43:23,970 --> 00:43:21,940
weird MIB angle that nobody really I

971
00:43:26,099 --> 00:43:23,980
don't biggest fully figured out what

972
00:43:28,349 --> 00:43:26,109
they are except there there's no way

973
00:43:31,289 --> 00:43:28,359
they they're from the Pentagon or the

974
00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:31,299
DoD they just they're not you know that

975
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,140
there's something much weirder but and

976
00:43:41,099 --> 00:43:38,640
maybe that too is sort of you know

977
00:43:43,529 --> 00:43:41,109
pushed the government to look into this

978
00:43:46,410 --> 00:43:43,539
angle as well I don't again I'm

979
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:46,420
speculating there but it is kind of

980
00:43:50,999 --> 00:43:48,670
strange you know when you find that

981
00:43:52,769 --> 00:43:51,009
you've got the abductees being

982
00:43:55,259 --> 00:43:52,779
interviewed by the government and then

983
00:43:58,019 --> 00:43:55,269
followed by these other groups of people

984
00:43:59,880 --> 00:43:58,029
as well and so I'm sure there's a much

985
00:44:03,150 --> 00:43:59,890
bigger picture that which we're still

986
00:44:04,410 --> 00:44:03,160
really trying to figure out what's going

987
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:04,420
on and put all the pieces together

988
00:44:09,870 --> 00:44:08,170
because right now and unfortunately even

989
00:44:12,839 --> 00:44:09,880
I have to admit you know I think which

990
00:44:15,390 --> 00:44:12,849
we're still got like strands of these

991
00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:15,400
stories but at least with state we're

992
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:17,230
starting to say things come together you

993
00:44:24,660 --> 00:44:20,049
know well I tell you you know I've been

994
00:44:28,620 --> 00:44:24,670
I've worked with several supposed

995
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,630
abductees over the years but there there

996
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:30,640
are a few things in this whole phenomena

997
00:44:34,769 --> 00:44:32,650
just really bothered me and in

998
00:44:37,620 --> 00:44:34,779
particular like the MyLab intimidation

999
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:37,630
that a company is an alien abduction

1000
00:44:42,539 --> 00:44:39,460
where somebody has had an actual an

1001
00:44:45,229 --> 00:44:42,549
abduction and then a military the

1002
00:44:50,099 --> 00:44:45,239
military either abducts them or really

1003
00:44:55,019 --> 00:44:50,109
intimidates them mind control of these

1004
00:44:59,339 --> 00:44:55,029
sainted abductees and then the

1005
00:45:01,660 --> 00:44:59,349
possibility that an abductee will never

1006
00:45:05,230 --> 00:45:01,670
return now I've had

1007
00:45:08,740 --> 00:45:05,240
one in particular one abductee who had a

1008
00:45:11,980 --> 00:45:08,750
lot of insight on this that actually saw

1009
00:45:17,799 --> 00:45:11,990
this where bodies were being disposed of

1010
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:17,809
by these these non terrestrial beings so

1011
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:21,770
I mean why is the government involved in

1012
00:45:27,370 --> 00:45:23,450
particular like this my lab you talking

1013
00:45:31,049 --> 00:45:27,380
about Dulce or another facility what

1014
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:31,059
what's the deal with that well

1015
00:45:37,210 --> 00:45:33,970
interesting angle and I sort of make a

1016
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,220
you know make a like a parallel between

1017
00:45:41,319 --> 00:45:39,680
these two groups because they seem to be

1018
00:45:42,579 --> 00:45:41,329
quite different with the mill herbs that

1019
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:42,589
you're talking about which stands for

1020
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:45,410
military abductions people claim that's

1021
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:47,150
they've been taken to sort of

1022
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:49,730
underground facilities and military

1023
00:45:54,910 --> 00:45:53,089
bases by guys in sort of almost like a

1024
00:45:57,549 --> 00:45:54,920
SWAT type outfit you know like black

1025
00:45:59,230 --> 00:45:57,559
outfits in a black cap and and

1026
00:46:02,859 --> 00:45:59,240
threatened and pushed around and

1027
00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:02,869
intimidated quite deeply and you know

1028
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:04,670
there's no doubt that that's part of the

1029
00:46:11,859 --> 00:46:07,760
you know the alien abduction history and

1030
00:46:14,740 --> 00:46:11,869
law so to speak but there seems to be

1031
00:46:17,950 --> 00:46:14,750
this other group within government there

1032
00:46:19,210 --> 00:46:17,960
are clearly not the male up people you

1033
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:19,220
know these are the ones I'm talking

1034
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:21,650
about in relation to many of the cases

1035
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:24,410
in the book where you know it really was

1036
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,000
just like a knock on the door and hi

1037
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:28,640
mrs. Smith you know we like to talk to

1038
00:46:32,020 --> 00:46:30,290
you don't mind about your experience

1039
00:46:34,569 --> 00:46:32,030
that you put on your Facebook page and

1040
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:34,579
would you mind if we came in and talk to

1041
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:37,190
you that's totally different to the male

1042
00:46:42,460 --> 00:46:39,710
a bangle you know where people basically

1043
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:42,470
are pushed around so again it's

1044
00:46:47,309 --> 00:46:44,569
something I can't prove but I think what

1045
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:47,319
it demonstrates is that there might be

1046
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:50,240
maybe even two possibly even more groups

1047
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:51,890
within government that are looking into

1048
00:46:57,940 --> 00:46:55,130
the abduction angle the agency a or

1049
00:47:01,059 --> 00:46:57,950
think-tank a isn't telling think-tank B

1050
00:47:02,859 --> 00:47:01,069
what they know and somebody else thinks

1051
00:47:04,930 --> 00:47:02,869
we should handle like this somebody else

1052
00:47:06,490 --> 00:47:04,940
thinks we should handle it like that so

1053
00:47:10,510 --> 00:47:06,500
I think that's why we're seeing this

1054
00:47:14,850 --> 00:47:10,520
really kind of large differentiation

1055
00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:14,860
between the the mill up stories and

1056
00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:16,390
what we would call these sort of far

1057
00:47:27,050 --> 00:47:19,990
more I would say laid-back but certainly

1058
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:30,660
for this is because you know when we say

1059
00:47:35,970 --> 00:47:32,710
the government it really is like a

1060
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:35,980
collective term for dozens of agencies

1061
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:38,800
and within those dozens of agencies you

1062
00:47:43,350 --> 00:47:40,330
know there are small little projects

1063
00:47:45,450 --> 00:47:43,360
that get funded here and funded there so

1064
00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:45,460
in other words it's not really the

1065
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:48,070
government's that investigate abductions

1066
00:47:53,610 --> 00:47:50,560
it's a small think tank or a small

1067
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:53,620
project that has been funded by this

1068
00:47:59,640 --> 00:47:57,010
group or that agency and somebody else

1069
00:48:01,590 --> 00:47:59,650
is funding another agency but for

1070
00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:01,600
security reasons they don't necessarily

1071
00:48:07,470 --> 00:48:04,870
always share information and so for that

1072
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:07,480
reason I think that probably explains

1073
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:11,680
you know the distinct differences that

1074
00:48:16,890 --> 00:48:14,890
you see how has some paper interviewed

1075
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:16,900
and others are sort of basically pulled

1076
00:48:25,830 --> 00:48:21,850
around and threatened you know I asked

1077
00:48:31,890 --> 00:48:25,840
researchers in especially in the UFO

1078
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:31,900
phenomena how they how they deal with

1079
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:34,930
the government as far as when they put

1080
00:48:40,410 --> 00:48:37,930
in a FOIA request you you have a lot of

1081
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:40,420
cooperation do you have any push back or

1082
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:42,730
what kind of problems do you face with

1083
00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:45,790
them well I have to be honest I mean

1084
00:48:51,150 --> 00:48:48,280
whenever I'd use the freedom Information

1085
00:48:53,250 --> 00:48:51,160
Act in the past I mean I've never had

1086
00:48:54,930 --> 00:48:53,260
honestly I've never had any problems

1087
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:54,940
they've always said you know this is

1088
00:49:01,800 --> 00:48:57,850
what we can release to you and this is

1089
00:49:05,220 --> 00:49:01,810
what we cannot release to you now what I

1090
00:49:08,190 --> 00:49:05,230
found I mean the FBI are really good at

1091
00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:08,200
declassifying their files ever an online

1092
00:49:13,860 --> 00:49:10,390
website called the vault let's go to

1093
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:13,870
vault gov you will find literally

1094
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:18,970
millions of pages of files of thousands

1095
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:21,370
of files on everything from celebrities

1096
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:26,240
to Russian spies to

1097
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:28,650
old-style gangster files

1098
00:49:34,550 --> 00:49:31,110
bonnie-and-clyde that kind of thing

1099
00:49:36,830 --> 00:49:34,560
and what you find is that you know the

1100
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:36,840
FBI has been really good release of

1101
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:38,970
these files and and you can download

1102
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:40,800
them in PDF format

1103
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:43,800
you didn't cost you anything so I felt

1104
00:49:46,730 --> 00:49:45,330
you know but people often say oh they

1105
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:46,740
don't give you anything you know they

1106
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:48,960
hold the best stuff back but I mean you

1107
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:51,570
can go to the FBI's website the vault go

1108
00:49:54,860 --> 00:49:53,610
to the unexplained phenomenon section

1109
00:49:58,430 --> 00:49:54,870
click on that that's what it's called

1110
00:50:01,250 --> 00:49:58,440
and then you've got like nearly 2,000

1111
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:01,260
pages of really interesting UFO files at

1112
00:50:06,740 --> 00:50:03,510
the FBI collected there's like a hundred

1113
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:06,750
and fifty page file on their reports on

1114
00:50:10,310 --> 00:50:08,460
cattle mutilations which are filled

1115
00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:10,320
reports filled with reports of like

1116
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:13,830
black helicopters and cattle with organs

1117
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:16,650
removed and laser incisions that's all

1118
00:50:21,460 --> 00:50:19,680
in the FBI's Declassified files so so

1119
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:21,470
they've actually been really good

1120
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:25,800
declassified documents now of course

1121
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:28,310
there are certain situations where

1122
00:50:34,310 --> 00:50:32,160
national security over overwhelms you

1123
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:34,320
know just the public interest and so

1124
00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:37,680
very often files don't get Declassified

1125
00:50:43,070 --> 00:50:40,320
and any many occasions you know you it's

1126
00:50:47,180 --> 00:50:43,080
it's valid because you know you don't

1127
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:47,190
want potential enemies to know you know

1128
00:50:53,180 --> 00:50:49,110
the extent to which our radar systems

1129
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:53,190
can you know yeah and we don't want them

1130
00:50:59,540 --> 00:50:56,640
to find out you know the power and etc

1131
00:51:01,550 --> 00:50:59,550
of our missiles and our artillery and so

1132
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:01,560
on so you know there are legitimate

1133
00:51:05,420 --> 00:51:04,110
reasons why certain stuff should not be

1134
00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:05,430
probably put in the public domain

1135
00:51:10,490 --> 00:51:07,980
because the public domain could mean

1136
00:51:13,610 --> 00:51:10,500
your potential enemy but when it comes

1137
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:13,620
to UFOs and things like that I think you

1138
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:15,180
know the because the government's

1139
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:17,610
official stance has always been your

1140
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:19,590
foes don't affect national security my

1141
00:51:28,070 --> 00:51:22,050
argument is well let's say everything

1142
00:51:30,050 --> 00:51:28,080
then you know right well you know now we

1143
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:30,060
now we do know that the government is

1144
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:32,610
interested in nailing abductions but

1145
00:51:38,810 --> 00:51:36,330
with other phenomena say Bigfoot for

1146
00:51:39,170 --> 00:51:38,820
instance now you know we all heard the

1147
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,180
store

1148
00:51:45,020 --> 00:51:41,760
is that the government was you know

1149
00:51:47,530 --> 00:51:45,030
interested in in the in Bigfoot and you

1150
00:51:50,299 --> 00:51:47,540
know I had an experience many years ago

1151
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:50,309
where there seemed to be a lot of

1152
00:51:57,020 --> 00:51:54,079
government interest in in citing but a

1153
00:51:59,660 --> 00:51:57,030
gee what's your feeling on that do you

1154
00:52:03,170 --> 00:51:59,670
think it kind of the government is

1155
00:52:07,569 --> 00:52:03,180
actually involved with the Bigfoot and

1156
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:07,579
other type of cryptozoology phenomena

1157
00:52:14,510 --> 00:52:10,530
well I mean this is where it gets into

1158
00:52:17,839 --> 00:52:14,520
sort of really controversial situations

1159
00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:17,849
I mean I don't personally have more than

1160
00:52:23,660 --> 00:52:22,260
maybe one or two cases where you know

1161
00:52:26,270 --> 00:52:23,670
the witnesses claimed that there was

1162
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:26,280
like a government connection to Bigfoot

1163
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:28,800
but I mean I definitely know Stan Gordon

1164
00:52:35,410 --> 00:52:32,970
in Pennsylvania well Stan as a friend of

1165
00:52:37,940 --> 00:52:35,420
mine and he's he wrote a book about

1166
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:37,950
eight or nine years ago called silent

1167
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:40,609
invasion which was about a wave of UFO

1168
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:43,140
Bigfoot activity in Pennsylvania in the

1169
00:52:48,289 --> 00:52:46,559
mid seventies and in there Stan got a

1170
00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:48,299
lot of really weird stories where

1171
00:52:53,569 --> 00:52:51,150
military people came out and MIB people

1172
00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:53,579
came out to investigate some of these

1173
00:53:03,289 --> 00:52:58,530
weird Bigfoot type cases there are one

1174
00:53:05,359 --> 00:53:03,299
or two odd cases in the UK where the

1175
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:05,369
beam reports of what are known as alien

1176
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:07,410
big cats or ABC's they're like these

1177
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:09,569
huge black cats roaming around the UK

1178
00:53:13,579 --> 00:53:12,000
which should not be there you know

1179
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:13,589
there's nothing like that that should be

1180
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:16,170
natural to the to the UK and there

1181
00:53:20,359 --> 00:53:18,089
actually are a few weird stories where

1182
00:53:23,089 --> 00:53:20,369
people who reported to say their local

1183
00:53:24,859 --> 00:53:23,099
police that they've seen this you know

1184
00:53:27,650 --> 00:53:24,869
something like a black jag you were

1185
00:53:29,930 --> 00:53:27,660
roaming around the countryside and then

1186
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:29,940
afterwards the person received like

1187
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:31,770
weird phone calls telling them not to

1188
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,290
talk about it I worried a couple of

1189
00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:36,079
cases actually like and there might be

1190
00:53:40,819 --> 00:53:38,579
knocking on the door and saying you know

1191
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:40,829
please don't talk about this now that

1192
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:43,650
could be legitimately the you know so

1193
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:45,240
that one particular arm of the

1194
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:47,690
government is a bit concerned about the

1195
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:50,099
possibility that there are large big

1196
00:53:53,090 --> 00:53:52,410
cats possibly escaped or being released

1197
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:53,100
into the why

1198
00:53:57,140 --> 00:53:54,510
and they just don't want people to know

1199
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,150
well I have to say that that's very

1200
00:54:02,000 --> 00:53:59,520
small handful that I have of these alien

1201
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:02,010
big cat stories in the MIB they do

1202
00:54:08,810 --> 00:54:05,510
actually sound more like MIB rather than

1203
00:54:10,940 --> 00:54:08,820
concerned government civil servants who

1204
00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:10,950
just don't want the public to panic you

1205
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:13,230
know there does seem to be a more

1206
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:16,010
weirder aspect to it mm-hmm

1207
00:54:21,350 --> 00:54:18,690
well other than that I really don't have

1208
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:21,360
much of anything that sort of links the

1209
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:25,170
MIB directly to like cryptozoology there

1210
00:54:29,150 --> 00:54:27,450
are a couple of things but not something

1211
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:29,160
where I could definitely say you know

1212
00:54:37,610 --> 00:54:33,210
there's like a solid big phenomenon you

1213
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:37,620
know now I want to get your thoughts on

1214
00:54:43,460 --> 00:54:39,410
this what what are your thoughts on

1215
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:43,470
families generational alien abduction I

1216
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:45,450
mean do you believe that it runs the

1217
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:46,800
families because I've heard stories

1218
00:54:51,350 --> 00:54:49,410
where I've gotten to where I've gotten a

1219
00:54:54,590 --> 00:54:51,360
report from somebody and I talk to them

1220
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:54,600
about it and invariably when I ask them

1221
00:54:59,600 --> 00:54:57,090
there it turns out one of the parents or

1222
00:55:02,780 --> 00:54:59,610
grandparents had a similar type of

1223
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:02,790
phenomena I mean this this is actually

1224
00:55:09,530 --> 00:55:07,110
going on right oh yeah no doubt that's

1225
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:09,540
part of the phenomenon you know of

1226
00:55:14,210 --> 00:55:11,490
course the big question is well how how

1227
00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:14,220
can it happen I mean some researchers

1228
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:15,990
suggest this sort of ties in with the

1229
00:55:22,340 --> 00:55:18,480
whole implant angle as to how they can

1230
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:22,350
track people around the country and and

1231
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:24,450
follow you know families on a

1232
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:28,050
generational level I mean you know

1233
00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:29,250
you've seen the last few years

1234
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:30,870
particularly in sort of conspiracy

1235
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:33,810
writing the affairs that people have

1236
00:55:39,470 --> 00:55:36,510
about being implanted you know we're all

1237
00:55:41,630 --> 00:55:39,480
going to get implanted or whatever well

1238
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:41,640
you know I always say not that this is

1239
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:44,640
actually gives us any help but you know

1240
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:46,770
if you look today I always say to me

1241
00:55:51,860 --> 00:55:49,680
well there's no need really for any of

1242
00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:51,870
us to be implanted by the government

1243
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:55,080
because we really are already implanted

1244
00:55:59,450 --> 00:55:57,810
but it's called it's called an iPhone

1245
00:56:02,720 --> 00:55:59,460
and instead of being implanted it's in

1246
00:56:04,940 --> 00:56:02,730
your party and that iPhone that iPhone

1247
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:04,950
will allow someone to track your every

1248
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:05,920
movement

1249
00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:10,450
I'll be able to essentially figure out

1250
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:12,990
what kind of books you buy off Amazon

1251
00:56:20,039 --> 00:56:15,609
what kind of clothing you like to buy

1252
00:56:23,010 --> 00:56:20,049
online what terms you look up on Sperry

1253
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:23,020
search engines or this or that so in

1254
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:26,500
other words you know the days of people

1255
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:29,920
worrying about implants I actually think

1256
00:56:34,170 --> 00:56:32,260
they're gone because like as I said you

1257
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,180
know the vast majority people now do

1258
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:35,920
have iPhones or at the very least a

1259
00:56:42,359 --> 00:56:39,520
smartphone you know literal iPhone but

1260
00:56:45,289 --> 00:56:42,369
what I would say is that because you

1261
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:45,299
know it is so easy to monitor social

1262
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:48,910
media there's no need for anyone to be

1263
00:56:56,220 --> 00:56:52,720
implanted because we've already given up

1264
00:56:58,770 --> 00:56:56,230
our privacy and a lot of people just

1265
00:57:01,980 --> 00:56:58,780
don't seem to care you know yeah you're

1266
00:57:06,450 --> 00:57:01,990
right about that you know you wrote a

1267
00:57:09,059 --> 00:57:06,460
book a while back about the the Rh

1268
00:57:13,079 --> 00:57:09,069
negative factor in a lot of these alien

1269
00:57:14,819 --> 00:57:13,089
abductees and you know this is something

1270
00:57:20,190 --> 00:57:14,829
I checked with with people when I talked

1271
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:20,200
to them and I would say at least 80% if

1272
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:23,290
not more so the people that I talked to

1273
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:28,690
have own negative blood it just it's

1274
00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:32,220
almost every time it's no negative blood

1275
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:37,990
yeah that's an interesting aspect back

1276
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:44,079
in 2015 excuse me called bloodline of

1277
00:57:49,710 --> 00:57:46,930
the gods and basically that was a study

1278
00:57:52,049 --> 00:57:49,720
of the whole Rh negative blood and how

1279
00:57:55,170 --> 00:57:52,059
it ties in with the UFO subject and

1280
00:57:58,829 --> 00:57:55,180
abductions and so on now why don't you

1281
00:58:01,650 --> 00:57:58,839
tell you that that book provided the

1282
00:58:06,059 --> 00:58:01,660
most feedback that I'd ever got from any

1283
00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:06,069
book it was yummy mostly a Freddy book I

1284
00:58:12,539 --> 00:58:09,160
tend to write I probably get sort of I

1285
00:58:14,579 --> 00:58:12,549
know 50 or 60 people you know over the

1286
00:58:17,099 --> 00:58:14,589
course of the year that the book says

1287
00:58:18,990 --> 00:58:17,109
you know will contact me you know read

1288
00:58:19,710 --> 00:58:19,000
your book enjoyed it want to share this

1289
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:19,720
story

1290
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:22,090
and fifty to sixty no it's it's if it's

1291
00:58:26,609 --> 00:58:24,550
a fair amount of people you know to take

1292
00:58:29,010 --> 00:58:26,619
time out of their day to do that you

1293
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:29,020
know I appreciate people doing that but

1294
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:31,090
with bloodline of the gods I think I got

1295
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:33,369
somewhere in the region of probably

1296
00:58:37,859 --> 00:58:35,440
about three to four hundred emails

1297
00:58:42,359 --> 00:58:37,869
messages you know Facebook messages or

1298
00:58:44,310 --> 00:58:42,369
message to my blog etc of people saying

1299
00:58:46,980 --> 00:58:44,320
either they'd had the experience and

1300
00:58:49,170 --> 00:58:46,990
we're Rh negative or a family member was

1301
00:58:52,170 --> 00:58:49,180
or they had questions for it but yeah

1302
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:52,180
that that book actually provided the

1303
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:56,050
most feedback that I've ever got book so

1304
00:59:00,510 --> 00:58:58,240
you know I find that kind of interesting

1305
00:59:04,070 --> 00:59:00,520
that as you said the more you look into

1306
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:04,080
this Rh negative angle you do find that

1307
00:59:09,930 --> 00:59:07,359
there's this undercurrent of connections

1308
00:59:11,820 --> 00:59:09,940
that a lot of people didn't even realize

1309
00:59:15,390 --> 00:59:11,830
were there in the first place it's

1310
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:15,400
fascinating so Nick how can people get

1311
00:59:21,830 --> 00:59:17,290
in contact with you and find your books

1312
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:21,840
and what do you have on the horizon okay

1313
00:59:29,329 --> 00:59:26,140
well Amazon and for people who still

1314
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:29,339
like to walk in bookstores about sixty

1315
00:59:37,620 --> 00:59:33,310
shelves in Barnes and Noble people can

1316
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:37,630
reach me at various ways Facebook just

1317
00:59:43,770 --> 00:59:40,450
typed me in you'll you'll see me and

1318
00:59:46,170 --> 00:59:43,780
there's also Twitter Nick Redfern UFO

1319
00:59:48,359 --> 00:59:46,180
and I have a blog called world of

1320
00:59:51,810 --> 00:59:48,369
whatever so if you just type that in

1321
00:59:53,310 --> 00:59:51,820
you'll see the the link and as far as

1322
00:59:56,579 --> 00:59:53,320
what's coming next I've actually got one

1323
00:59:59,640 --> 00:59:56,589
coming out on on New Year's Day of all

1324
01:00:04,170 --> 00:59:59,650
times possible and and it's called area

1325
01:00:08,490 --> 01:00:04,180
51 and it's like a it's a 400 page study

1326
01:00:11,339 --> 01:00:08,500
of the history of area 51 but focusing

1327
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:11,349
on the whole UFO angle and theories and

1328
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:14,650
claims connected to it oh I'm definitely

1329
01:00:22,530 --> 01:00:18,160
read that one so Nick thanks again for

1330
01:00:25,250 --> 01:00:22,540
joining me it's been a pleasure you take

1331
01:00:30,570 --> 01:00:27,750
now listeners can show their support for

1332
01:00:32,250 --> 01:00:30,580
arcane radio by becoming a patron simply

1333
01:00:33,550 --> 01:00:32,260
go to phantoms of monsters comm and

1334
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:33,560
click

1335
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,530
being patron banner arcane radio also

1336
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:39,680
accepts direct donations now if you

1337
01:00:43,420 --> 01:00:41,450
haven't I'll explain to counter sighting

1338
01:00:46,660 --> 01:00:43,430
feel free to contact me through the

1339
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:46,670
phantoms of monsters blog site I won't

1340
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:49,130
again thank Nick Radford for joining me

1341
01:00:53,650 --> 01:00:51,440
this evening and want to thank you for

1342
01:01:02,710 --> 01:00:53,660
listening to the show a good night and

1343
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:16,830
[Music]

1344
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:41,910
[Applause]

1345
01:01:41,920 --> 01:02:16,600
[Music]